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Re: Re: Eight simple questions and a repeated request to Brian Foley

Yes. It is true.

You have been told numerous times that proving that a 1.16 g/ml band is 100% pure virus is not a requirement for studying retroviruses. You repeatedly claim that it is, yet you have never shown anything but a rumor of a 1973 talk given by Francois Barre-Sinoussi and Jean Claude Bermann, to back up your claim. Do you have a transcript of that talk? Do you have any evidence that this talk became the law for retrovirology?

The Perth Group wrote:
“…
Q2. Is it true that Montagnier's and Gallo's "viral RNA [and thus] proviral DNA and viral proteins" used for "Southern, northern and western blots" originated from their "purified" virus which may or may not have contained any particles with the morphology of retroviruses
…”

No. It is not true.

The proviral DNA came from HIV-infected cells. As far as I can tell from reading the papers, that virus was never passaged through a density gradient.

In some cases, poly-A RNA was extracted from density-enriched viral particles, and used for labeling probes for southern or northern blotting.

The Perth Group wrote:
“…
Q3. Is it true that the only proof they gave for the existence of the “HIV” proteins was a reaction between some proteins in their “purified” virus and antibodies present in the AIDS patients’ sera.
…”

No. It is not true.

Seorologogical evidence was only one of several lines of evidence.

The Perth Group wrote:
“…
Q4. Is it true that a reaction between an antigen and antibodies present in an animal or human serum is not proof that the antigen is present in the animal or human and thus that the antibodies are directed against the antigen.
…”

Yes.

Serological evidence is only one of several lines of evidence used.

The Perth Group wrote:
“…
Q5. Since Montagnier and Gallo did not have proof for “purified HIV”, were their “Southern, northern and western Blots” valid.
…”

Yes.

The Perth Group wrote:
“…
Q6. Is it true then, that the origin of lHXB-2 "one of the best known infectious molecular clones" of "HIV" is a poly(A)-RNA found in Gallo's "purified" HIV.
…”

No.

We have been over this at least twice before. The Lambda-HXB-2 infectious molecular clone of HIV-1 M group subtype B did not originate in poly-A RNA. It was cloned from one of the several proviral genomes integrated into an H9 cell line.

The Perth Group wrote:
“…
Q7. If this is the case, is it not true that to claim the poly(A)-RNA in the 1.16g/ml band (the "purified" virus) is the "HIV" genome, evidence must exist which proves beyond reasonable doubt that the "purified" virus contained nothing else but particles with the morphology of retroviruses. (If impurities existed, they must not contain RNA).
…”

No.

The Perth Group wrote:
“…
Q8. Doesn’t it follow that we must start with Montagnier’s and Gallo’s groups 1983-1985 “raw data”.
…”

No.

The laboratory groups lead by Robert Gallo and Luc Montagnier were the first to publish identification of a virus, referred to at the time as HTLV-III by Gallo and LAV by Montagnier, which later became known as HIV-1 M group subtype B as the probable cause of AIDS. These two labs were not the only two labs in the world to independently reach the same conclusion. One can examine the raw data of other labs, such as the lab that Jay Levy worked in, and ignore the work done by the Gallo and Montagnier labs, and still reach the conclusion that HIV-1 and HIV-2 the causes of AIDS in humans.

1: Luciw PA, Potter SJ, Steimer K, Dina D, Levy JA.
Molecular cloning of AIDS-associated retrovirus. .
Nature. 1984 Dec 20-1985 Jan 2;312(5996):760-3. .
PMID: 6096718

2: Cooper DA, Gold J, May W, Kaminsky LS, Penny R, Levy JA. .
Contact tracing in the acquired immune deficiency syndrome (AIDS). .
Evidence for transmission of virus and disease by an asymptomatic .
carrier. Med J Aust. 1984 Oct 27;141(9):579-82. .
PMID: 6092883

3: Levy JA, Hoffman AD, Kramer SM, Landis JA, Shimabukuro JM, Oshiro LS. .
Isolation of lymphocytopathic retroviruses from San Francisco patients with
AIDS. .
Science. 1984 Aug 24;225(4664):840-2. .
PMID: 6206563

The Perth Group wrote:
“…
So we repeat our request: “Would Brian Foley please give us a study and a few confirmatory studies where the existence of an “infectious molecular clone” of “HIV” has been proven.”
…”

No.

If you can show me one virus (and not a mixture of three or more viruses, as you presented the last time you were asked) that has “purified” and/or cloned to your satisfaction, I will consider further discussion. Until then, adios.

Competing interests: None declared